Grammatical Problems

[Marichka]

Hello dear Dianella
Yes, as you said there was not such a topic in EFL Forum.
So thanks for creating it .

Dear Dianella in my opinion the right answer is the first one,
because it is mostly recommended in translating passive senteces to convert passive form into active. I mean it should have been translated
"برنامه پايان يافت"
if the original text had been "Program has been terminated", let alone this case that the original text itself is active !
for example in the following sentence :
"Some of the soldiers were decorated and the others highly praised."
the usual translation is :
به برخي از سربازان مدال داده شد و از بقيه بسيار قدرداني شد.
You can see that these kinds of sentences are not that much respectful and good and does not seem "Original Persian". So it's better to translate it into active :
به برخي از آنها مدال دادند و از بقيه بسيار قدرداني كردند

I hope I could have transfered what I meant .

Wish You Success

Hello Dear Ali
Thank you very much for clearing this up to me. I surely got your meaning and Beside my main question I learnt a hint in translating. But I think I was not be able to explain what I meant so clearly; You see, mostly I wanted to know this kind of structure "Program terminated" is cathegorized in which form of sentence-passive or active? Because it is something common in english speaking yet there is no verb in it. And from this point of view how should it be translated? And maybe it would be better to say is it just a routin way to shorten the main structure "The program has been terminated" in speaking (not writing) matters or is it some special structure that although its appearence is passive, translates into active form?
Thanks again dear Ali for your time and care

Hi well... The way you translated those topics i tought u're the god! but its okay cant expect... em... about ur Q. am/is/are/was/were/ can be used when u're talking about something being done by something/someone else... E.g. The program was terminated (by who/wat...?) --> & it's passive and you have the option of eliminating the "فاعل" and it's translated as: برنامه (به وسیله) من/اون/ما/شما ... پایان یافت. but when u say I terminated the program --> it's active and you're the "فاعل" and it's translated as: من/اون/ما/شما... به اون برنامه پایان داد(ی)م.. i know its a bit difficult to translate in its original form but it'll get more complicated when it comes to "been/being" stuff. anyways, all the best. bye 4 now.

Dear Ashkan
Thank you for your time and caring about my question.
First I must say I am not God just Dianella
And second is that I already know the structures you have explaind here. As you see above that is my question and sorry if I coudn't explain in clearly
If you have any examples of usage of the exaclt phrase "Program terminated" in anywhere (like movies) please let me know.
I myself have one--in the movie "I robot" if you have seen it before.

Thank you all again and
Best of luck

[Ali]

Dear Dianella,
I think my penny is dropped !
The phrase "Program Terminated" is active itself, but the verb "Terminate" is either active or passive .So it's definition in persian is both "پايان دادن" and "پايان يافتن". So that's why the sentence "Program Terminated" is right.

And about the structure of omiting "has/have been" in speaking forms; I have to say that,yes , it is common .


I have seen the error "Program Terminated" many times while working with computer. specially when the PC is infected with viruses or while working with different softwares when they have been badly written!

[Marichka]

Dear Dianella,
I think my penny is dropped !
The phrase "Program Terminated" is active itself, but the verb "Terminate" is either active or passive .So it's definition in persian is both "پايان دادن" and "پايان يافتن". So that's why the sentence "Program Terminated" is right.

And about the structure of omiting "has/have been" in speaking forms; I have to say that,yes , it is common .


I have seen the error "Program Terminated" many times while working with computer. specially when the PC is infected with viruses or while working with different softwares when they have been badly written!

Hello Dear Ali
Thank you.
I think finally I find the right answer to the question which was in my mind for a while
Hope you best of fortune in every moment of your life
Dianella

[Behzad.master]

Hi all
We can also say the program has terminated

[Reza1969]

Hi Dianella ( and the others as well )

Sorry I came to your question pretty late. I think you & the other pals have missed a point here (I mean in your question). Look! verbs in English are two kinds: Transitive( the ones which need an object) & Intransitive( the ones which don't need an object):

Transitive : See

I see a man.

Intransitive: cry

He cried a lot in the morning.

But there are some special verbs( like Terminate ) which are both transitive & intransitive.I mean they can be used with & without an object. On the other hand, we know that it's impossible to make a passive sentence by an intransitive verb( because all passive sentences are made by transitive verbs):

He was seen yesterday.
But NOT: I was cried.

So, when we see that a word like " terminate " is both transitive & intransitive, it means this word-when intransitive- can be used in active form without an object( like the example you've written up there):

Program terminated.

Now the problem is that in the above sentence wether the program is the subject or someone else.Since it is in active voice, we can say that the best translation for it is : برنامه پايان يافت.
Because it were passive, it would have had its auxiliary verb " was ".
However, it's true that the frequency of using passive voice in English (specially in formal texts is more than in Persian) and it's always recommended to change passive structures in English to active in Persian, if possible, to make the translation of the text sound more Persian rather than English.

Another hint:

If you wanna know more about the usage of such multi-functional verbs, you'd better take a look at the following sentence:

This book sells well.

Which translatin sounds correct:

اين كتاب خوب مي فروشد or اين كتاب خوب فروش مي رود.

You see! In this example it's preety easy to say which translation is correct but in you example, considering the fact that the fact that the word " program " can act as a subject and as an agent as well, it's pretty difficult to decide between those two translations unless you check the sentences before & after it.

Some more examples(exerpted from Oxford Advanced Leaner's Dictionary):

Your contract of employment terminates in December.
The agreement was terminated immediately.

I hope the problem is a bit lightened now.

Waiting for your comments if you have any.

[Marichka]

Hello Dear Mr. Reza
Thank you for your guidance in here.
From the whole text of your post I understood a few things:
1- Regarding to this part:

So, when we see that a word like " terminate " is both transitive & intransitive, it means this word-when intransitive- can be used in active form without an object( like the example you've written up there): Program terminated.

The example "program terminated" is active itself in english and it is not a shortened phrase of the main passive structure" The program has been terminated".

2-In the example of computer mulfunction -brought here by dear Ali- the word "program" is agent according to number 1 of my statement here.

3- and regarding this part:

You see! In this example it's preety easy to say which translation is correct but in you example, considering the fact that the fact that the word " program " can act as a subject and as an agent as well, it's pretty difficult to decide between those two translations unless you check the sentences before & after it.

In case of translating such sentences we should consider the role of the special word-word "program" in here- to find out if it's used as object or agent in the whole text.

Thank you very much dear Mr. Reza and if my statements in here are correct it means that I have compeletly understood your meaning.
Best of fortune
Dianella

[Marichka]

Hello
I would like to ask you about some strange structure which I have lately found.
How do you classify this sentence:

Does his shouting not bother you?

I mean is it an old british way to ask something or what?

thanks a lot
Good Luck

[پرنس]

hello my freiends
i wrote this text can anyone tell me my mistakes

this is the first thing that writ in engilsh here, so if i havie a lot of mistake please forgive me
i am i n sofrron walden now - it is a small city between london and combridge- and i stay in bell international
wheater of here is similar keardasht city
there is about handred student from dffrent countiries like
italy,spanesh,china,kowait,mxico,brazil,switherlan d and of course iran in this anstitute
new course of this anstitude going to be start tomarrow
i hope that my writing would be much better at the end of this course

thanks a lot

[hamed79]

this is the first thing that I wrote in engilsh here, so if i have a lot of mistakes, please forgive me
i am in sofrron walden now - it is a small city between london and combridge- and i stay in bell international
wheater here is similar to keardasht city
there is about one handred students from dffrent countiries like
italy,spanesh,china,kowait,mexico,brazil,switherla nd and of course iran in this anstitute
new course of this anstitude will start tomarrow
i hope that my writing would be much better at the end of this course

Edited by the manager

[Reza1969]

Hello my freiends.
I've written this text. Can anyone tell me my mistakes?
Thanks a lot.

Here is the edited text:

This is the first thing that I try to write in English here and forgive me if you find lots of mistakes in it. I live in Sofrron Walden now. It's a small city between London & Cambridge. I stay in Bell International. The weather here is similar to that of Keardasht. There are about a hundred students from different countries like Italy, Spain, China, Kuwait, Mexico, Brazil, Switzerland, and also Iran at this institute. The new course of the institute is going to start tomorrow. I hope my writing will be much better at the end of this course.